-


RW>   I"ll do my best to be clear and lucid here, with some
RW>   interruptions, so bear with me if I get a bit overzealous
RW>   with the snippage.
JF> -


RS>   Jesse Ventura is making the rounds of talk shows, 

JF>     Do you really think Ventura would 'flat out' allow himself to be
JF> subjected to real torture?  Eyes poked out, fingers chopped off,
JF> teeth pulled, etc.

RW>  YEp, and thanks for helping to demonstrate a point that I've 
RW>  been trying to make in this echo as well.  Many
RW>  interrogation techniques might or might not be considered
RW>  torture depending on your working definition of the term.

JF>   Depending indeed.  Obviously waterboarding isn't anything that
JF> compares  to real torture, Ventura proves this definitively. (Thanks
JF> again, Ross.) 

RW>   BUt, this begs the question that I've not heard addressed,
RW>   except for by constitutional scholars and lawyers, and not
RW>   really in relation to this issue.

RW>   YOu know that having a polite little chat over a cup of
RW>   coffee isn't going to get what you seek from the bad guy.

    Yes, even a twelve year old can surmise this.  But in goo-goo-ga-
ga land where partisan psychosis driven by blind hatred prevail, it has
prevented them from even acknowledging this.



RW>   But many interrogations methods which place the subject
RW>   under physical and emotional stress are proven to elicit
RW>   unreliable information.

    I am certain that info derived in any manner proves to be
"unreliable", from time to time, but remember, any and all info' is
checked out.  If it's bogus, then they will know what info is bogus...if
it is the truth, bingo.    This much is certain, if you just sit there
and ask questions to a dedicated and/or hardened prisoner when he knows
you won't even take his blanket away, he's just gonna jerk you around,
that is, if he doesn't spit in your face and laugh, knowing, esp now,
we have the naive Mary Poppins brigade ready to swoop in to his defense.



RW>    SO, don't we really need to know that if we're going 
RW>    to place physical or psychological stresses on the 
RW>    subject we need to utilize those which are most reliable.

    Since the CIA has years and years of experience in this field,
(going back to long before Bush was around, guys, 'hello!')  I think
it's safe to assume they know what works best.  That is why they have
had to resort to waterboarding and other get tough measures when a
simply 'interview' doesn't get them anywhere.  Simple math.

    As for the hand picked PR people whose empty claims are parroted or
referenced around here, notice that none of them have actually conducted
ie.waterboarding themselves.

    As for those individuals who have actually used such tougher
methods, they can not come forward for a number of reasons.   First,
they would put their own life (and their family's) at risk if their
identities were made public, second, they would be giving up their
cover, which is very important in any sensitive intel' operation, and
third, the media would have a field day with the individual.  This is
why we have not heard from anyone who has used these methods in places
like Gitmo'.  As such, we are only getting a half baked account from a
few handpicked PR people in Obama's effort to elevate himself at Bush's
expense...all the while he is following in Bush's footsteps on numerous
accounts, with his legions of dupes and partisan hacks goose-stepping
right behind him, never holding his feet to the same fire they held
Bush's to.  Blithering and mindless hypocrites most of them.




RW>   DO we do research until we find the right 
RW>   chemical cocktail to inject? 

    I am sure that such injections would also come under the heading of
'torture' in the minds of many of these Bambi-brained dupes.


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