From: "Rich Gauszka" 

I wasn't making a comparison to another country. I believe that we can
become better than 'we are' and viewing events through unvarnished eyes is
but one step in that process.  I don't get where wishing to change the
'status quo' immediately makes one a socialist either


"Mark"  wrote in message
news:436aed25{at}w3.nls.net...
> Of course things change over the millennia, they generally do that
> according to changing viewpoints of the people in increments, not in one
> fell, ACLU, swoop. I think the USA has done pretty good with its
"fables"
> or do you have an example of a country that's done better?  a guess, I imagine you'll be speaking socialistic Saab and Volvo -- if so,
> no thanks, I like us the way we are>
>
> "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
> news:436aea17$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>> Nope. I'm saying that we should learn from history. Fables are fine for
>> children but at some time adults should be able to go beyond that.
>> Festivals/Celebrations/Worship have changed throughout the centuries. To
>> make believe as an adult that they are sacrosanct , inviolate  and
>> unchanging  is to ignore history
>>
>>
>> "Mark"  wrote in message
>> news:436ae3a0$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>> So what you're saying is kids aren't allowed to be kids, we must
>>> indoctrinate them from birth with all that is true, according to the
>>> ACLU, or some other version? Somehow I made it through that false Santa,
>>> I managed to collect Easter eggs, and I lived, wow, but my own kids and
>>> grandkids must be taught the truth according to [insert your favorite
>>> indoctrination zealot] to "save" them >> to teach their kids without obfuscation by those that wish to impart
>>> their version of the truth on a family>
>>>
>>> "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
>>> news:436ad93a$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Mark"  wrote in message
>>>> news:436ad262{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>> Hmm, I'm thinking more along the lines of (and this
has nothing to do
>>>>> with the Wilson's in particular):
>>>>>
>>>>> *Santa Claus is a jolly guy that brings you presents,
don't worry
>>>>> about Jesus, you're just a kid, you can decide later
what you believe
>>>>> and if you're lucky you can express those feelings
without the f'ing
>>>>> ACLU taking you to court.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey let's hijack a pagan middle of winter festival for this new
>>>> start-up sect called Christians. Christ wasn't really born
at this time
>>>> but we'll just pretend.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> *Halloween is a fun time where you get lots of candy
and maybe get
>>>>> scared of someone in a costume, you don't need to
worry about Devil
>>>>> Worshipers right now, in fact you don't ever have to
worry about them,
>>>>> as they're entitled to worship as they see fit; the
ACLU will see to
>>>>> it, for them, but they'll fight your rights to their
last dollar.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let's take a 2000 year old Celtic festival, have the Pope create a
>>>> Christian All Saints day and merge the two
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Easter is for egg hunts and it's okay if they're dyed
pink and blue,
>>>>> and don't worry about rising from the dead, you're a
kid. Later you
>>>>> can decide what you believe, but remember, you must
not express that
>>>>> feeling, or the ACLU will sue you.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let's take the Pagan worship of Attis used to celebrate death and
>>>> rebirth and graft those stories onto early   Christianity so that
>>>> Christian theology will be acceptable to the majority Pagans..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> *July 4th is for fireworks and flags and appreciation
of your country,
>>>>> but just enjoy the fireworks and don't worry about the
country until
>>>>> you're older, be a kid and enjoy. Later you can decide
if the country
>>>>> is really all that, or if it should abdicate its
future to the f'ing
>>>>> UN.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> your VP decided he had 'better things to do than serve' .
The kids will
>>>> just emulate Cheney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Thanksgiving is for family time in appreciation of the bounty
>>>>> provided by our country that we fought long and hard
for, enjoy your
>>>>> turkey, or just eat the pumpkin pie. Later you can
decide whether you
>>>>> accept the indoctrination attempts to show how bad
your ancestors were
>>>>> for fighting the Indians.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah Manifest Destiny rears it's head
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> *Columbus Day is for building your imagination about
explorers on
>>>>> small boats sailing into the unknown, later you can decide if
>>>>> exploration is really exploitation, but if you listen
to the morons
>>>>> you'll be living in the past as they do -- don't make
that mistake.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let's alter history. Pretend Columbus was one of the few
that knew the
>>>> world was round and that he wasn't  trying to find a
westward passage
>>>> to the Orient. Let him name the natives Indians because the Bahamas
>>>> were obviously in India. Let's then send Cortez and others
to  enslave
>>>> the local populace for their gold and riches and destroy their
>>>> civilizations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Rich Gauszka" 
wrote in message
>>>>> news:436acb0d{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>>> Ah - the neocon re-education camps?  Where the key
concepts of neocon
>>>>>> life are taught
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Science is a evil
>>>>>> *Nonconformity is evil
>>>>>> *Torture is good for the soul
>>>>>> *God loves us all( except for unbelievers who are evil )
>>>>>> *Evil should be exterminated
>>>>>> *Exterminate Exterminate Exterminate
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or is that the DALEK re-education camp? The two
are so similar I
>>>>>> sometimes get them confused
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gary Britt"
 wrote in message
>>>>>> news:436ab9d9{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>>>>I forgot to add that after Wilson and his bitch
wife are imprisoned
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>> their kids should be taken by the state and
placed in foster care
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> re-education.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Gary Britt"
 wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:436ab87d$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>>>>> So Joe Wilson lying about his mission, who
sent him, what he found
>>>>>>>> out,
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> for 15 minutes of infamy isn't media
manipulation, but attempting
>>>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> truth out that's manipulation to you.  
Riiigggghhhhttttt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe Wilson is a liar and self aggrandizing
idiot who was part of a
>>>>>>>> rogue
>>>>>>> CIA
>>>>>>>> plot to perpetrate a bloodless coup, he
should be imprisoned along
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>> traitorous wife and a few of her superiors.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Millions of people are writing their
senators demanding a
>>>>>>>> senatorial/criminal investigation into
Wilson, Plame, and parts of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> CIA.
>>>>>>>> They need to be hauled in, put under oath,
and scrutinized against
>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>> statement they have ever made in and
outside of the CIA, under oath
>>>>>>>> statements of all they claimed to speak to
for the past 2 years
>>>>>>>> related to
>>>>>>>> their possible crimes.  I just hope their
memories are perfect, and
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> don't forget something and get indicted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "John Cuccia"
 wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:1bblm19necc3egimr5smkag2jokakbj0e4{at}4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> > It isn't irony, it is a concerted
effort on the part of the Bush
>>>>>>>> > administration to manipulate and use
the same media the excoriate
>>>>>>>> > as
>>>>>>>> > "liberal" on a daily basis.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Some time back there was a discussion
in which I claimed (and
>>>>>>>> > still
>>>>>>>> > do) that today's Republican Party
controlled the political debate
>>>>>>>> > in
>>>>>>>> > this country.  This type of media
manipulation is exactly what I
>>>>>>>> > meant.   In this case the Bush
Administration used the media (in
>>>>>>>> > concert with perjury and obstruction
of justice) to maintain
>>>>>>>> > their
>>>>>>>> > electoral popularity until after the
Boy Wonder was re-elected.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Since then the veil has been lifted ,
which is why Bush has lost
>>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>>> > support of moderates,
independents,and crossover Democrats, and
>>>>>>>> > is
>>>>>>>> > left with the 30-something percent of
the population that are
>>>>>>>> > yellow-dog-type Republicans.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Bush's re-election was the direct
result of criminal actions
>>>>>>>> > perpetrated by his lieutenants.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:19:56 -0500,
Robert Comer
>>>>>>>> >
 wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > >The irony is deafening. 
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > >- Bob Comer
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>> > >Rich Gauszka wrote:
>>>>>>>> > >> So the MSM did rig the elction?
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
http://www.latimes.com/news/columnists/la-oe-scheer1nov01,1,3380519.col
umn?ctrack=1&cset=true
>>>>>>>> > >> What Judy forgot: Your right to know
>>>>>>>> > >> THE MOST intriguing
revelation of Special Prosecutor Patrick
>>>>>>>> > >> J.
>>>>>>>> Fitzgerald's
>>>>>>>> > >> news conference last week
was his assertion that he would have
>>>>>>>> presented his
>>>>>>>> > >> indictment of I. Lewis
"Scooter" Libby a year ago if not for
>>>>>>>> > >> the
>>>>>>>> > >> intransigence of reporters
who refused to testify before the
>>>>>>>> > >> grand
>>>>>>>> jury. He
>>>>>>>> > >> said that without that
delay, "we would have been here in
>>>>>>>> > >> October
>>>>>>> 2004
>>>>>>>> > >> instead of October 2005."
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >> Had that been the case, John
Kerry probably would be president
>>>>>>>> > >> of the
>>>>>>>> United
>>>>>>>> > >> States today.
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >> .....
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >> INSTEAD OF confronting Libby
for trying to mislead reporters,
>>>>>>>> > >> Miller
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> > >> nothing to expose his
efforts to smear a former ambassador for
>>>>>>> raising
>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>> > >> questions. At the very
least, she should have written a story
>>>>>>>> > >> stating
>>>>>>>> that a
>>>>>>>> > >> White House official was
planting information to disparage a
>>>>>>>> > >> critic
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>> > >> war policy. Miller couldn't
do that because she had acceded to
>>>>>>> Libby's
>>>>>>>> > >> demand that his White House
connection be concealed in any
>>>>>>>> > >> articles
>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>> > >> wrote, by identifying him as
a "former [Capitol] Hill
>>>>>>>> > >> staffer."
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >> This case was never about
protecting government sources who
>>>>>>>> > >> risk
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> > >> careers by telling the
truth, but rather about punishing those
>>>>>>>> > >> like
>>>>>>>> Wilson
>>>>>>>> > >> who do. That Miller cared
far more about protecting someone
>>>>>>>> > >> who
>>>>>>> abused
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>> > >> power as the vice
president's chief of staff than about
>>>>>>>> > >> protecting
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>> > >> of Wilson to speak truth to
power says volumes about her
>>>>>>>> > >> priorities.
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >> That the New York Times
again editorialized last week in
>>>>>>>> > >> defense of
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>> > >> knee-jerk support of Miller,
even after knowing she deceived
>>>>>>>> > >> her
>>>>>>>> editors, is
>>>>>>>> > >> a startling indication that
even some of our most respected
>>>>>>>> > >> media
>>>>>>> leade
>>>>>>>> rs
>>>>>>>> > >> still are missing the point.
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >> The 1st Amendment protection
is not a license for mischief on
>>>>>>>> > >> the
>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> > >> journalists eager to do the
government's bidding. To the
>>>>>>>> > >> contrary, it
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> > >> conceived by the founders to
prevent government from
>>>>>>>> > >> subverting the
>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>> > >> press in an effort to
misinform the public. Unfortunately,
>>>>>>>> > >> that is
>>>>>>>> precisely
>>>>>>>> > >> what occurred here.
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5