From: "Rich Gauszka" 

Sorry you lost me with the 'fables' proving your point

My point is that I am in agreement with Heraclitus  "There is nothing
permanent except change."


"Mark"  wrote in message
news:436af5ef{at}w3.nls.net...
> It doesn't make one a socialist, I was merely using that as a typical
> example of what many seem to think is a utopia (and wasn't accusing you of
> that in default, merely hazarding a guess as I said) that we should admire
> and strive for.
>
> That said, you do realize that your recitation of our current "fables"
> evolving from past "fables" over the millennia, rather than overnight,
> proves my point, yes? 
>
> "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
> news:436af0cb{at}w3.nls.net...
>>I wasn't making a comparison to another country. I believe that we can
>>become better than 'we are' and viewing events through unvarnished eyes is
>>but one step in that process.  I don't get where wishing to change the
>>'status quo' immediately makes one a socialist either
>>
>>
>> "Mark"  wrote in message
news:436aed25{at}w3.nls.net...
>>> Of course things change over the millennia, they generally do that
>>> according to changing viewpoints of the people in increments, not in one
>>> fell, ACLU, swoop. I think the USA has done pretty good with its
>>> "fables" or do you have an example of a country
that's done better?
>>> >> and Volvo -- if so, no thanks, I like us the way we are>
>>>
>>> "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
>>> news:436aea17$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>> Nope. I'm saying that we should learn from history. Fables
are fine for
>>>> children but at some time adults should be able to go beyond that.
>>>> Festivals/Celebrations/Worship have changed throughout the
centuries.
>>>> To make believe as an adult that they are sacrosanct ,
inviolate  and
>>>> unchanging  is to ignore history
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Mark"  wrote in message
>>>> news:436ae3a0$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>> So what you're saying is kids aren't allowed to be kids, we must
>>>>> indoctrinate them from birth with all that is true,
according to the
>>>>> ACLU, or some other version? Somehow I made it through
that false
>>>>> Santa, I managed to collect Easter eggs, and I lived,
wow, but my own
>>>>> kids and grandkids must be taught the truth according
to [insert your
>>>>> favorite indoctrination zealot] to "save"
them >>>> on parents to teach their kids without obfuscation by
those that wish
>>>>> to impart their version of the truth on a family>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Rich Gauszka" 
wrote in message
>>>>> news:436ad93a$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mark"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:436ad262{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>>>> Hmm, I'm thinking more along the lines of (and
this has nothing to
>>>>>>> do with the Wilson's in particular):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Santa Claus is a jolly guy that brings you
presents, don't worry
>>>>>>> about Jesus, you're just a kid, you can decide
later what you
>>>>>>> believe and if you're lucky you can express
those feelings without
>>>>>>> the f'ing ACLU taking you to court.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey let's hijack a pagan middle of winter festival
for this new
>>>>>> start-up sect called Christians. Christ wasn't
really born at this
>>>>>> time but we'll just pretend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Halloween is a fun time where you get lots of
candy and maybe get
>>>>>>> scared of someone in a costume, you don't need
to worry about Devil
>>>>>>> Worshipers right now, in fact you don't ever
have to worry about
>>>>>>> them, as they're entitled to worship as they
see fit; the ACLU will
>>>>>>> see to it, for them, but they'll fight your
rights to their last
>>>>>>> dollar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's take a 2000 year old Celtic festival, have
the Pope create a
>>>>>> Christian All Saints day and merge the two
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Easter is for egg hunts and it's okay if
they're dyed pink and
>>>>>>> blue, and don't worry about rising from the
dead, you're a kid.
>>>>>>> Later you can decide what you believe, but
remember, you must not
>>>>>>> express that feeling, or the ACLU will sue you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's take the Pagan worship of Attis used to
celebrate death and
>>>>>> rebirth and graft those stories onto early  
Christianity so that
>>>>>> Christian theology will be acceptable to the
majority Pagans..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *July 4th is for fireworks and flags and
appreciation of your
>>>>>>> country, but just enjoy the fireworks and
don't worry about the
>>>>>>> country until you're older, be a kid and
enjoy. Later you can decide
>>>>>>> if the country is really all that, or if it
should abdicate its
>>>>>>> future to the f'ing UN.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> your VP decided he had 'better things to do than
serve' . The kids
>>>>>> will just emulate Cheney
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Thanksgiving is for family time in
appreciation of the bounty
>>>>>>> provided by our country that we fought long
and hard for, enjoy your
>>>>>>> turkey, or just eat the pumpkin pie. Later you
can decide whether
>>>>>>> you accept the indoctrination attempts to show
how bad your
>>>>>>> ancestors were for fighting the Indians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah Manifest Destiny rears it's head
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Columbus Day is for building your imagination
about explorers on
>>>>>>> small boats sailing into the unknown, later
you can decide if
>>>>>>> exploration is really exploitation, but if you
listen to the morons
>>>>>>> you'll be living in the past as they do --
don't make that mistake.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's alter history. Pretend Columbus was one of
the few that knew
>>>>>> the world was round and that he wasn't  trying to
find a westward
>>>>>> passage to the Orient. Let him name the natives
Indians because the
>>>>>> Bahamas were obviously in India. Let's then send
Cortez and others to
>>>>>> enslave the local populace for their gold and
riches and destroy
>>>>>> their civilizations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Rich Gauszka"
 wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:436acb0d{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>>>>> Ah - the neocon re-education camps?  Where
the key concepts of
>>>>>>>> neocon life are taught
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Science is a evil
>>>>>>>> *Nonconformity is evil
>>>>>>>> *Torture is good for the soul
>>>>>>>> *God loves us all( except for unbelievers
who are evil )
>>>>>>>> *Evil should be exterminated
>>>>>>>> *Exterminate Exterminate Exterminate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or is that the DALEK re-education camp?
The two are so similar I
>>>>>>>> sometimes get them confused
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gary Britt"
 wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:436ab9d9{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>>>>>>I forgot to add that after Wilson and
his bitch wife are imprisoned
>>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>> their kids should be taken by the
state and placed in foster care
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> re-education.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Gary Britt"
 wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:436ab87d$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>>>>>>> So Joe Wilson lying about his
mission, who sent him, what he
>>>>>>>>>> found out,
>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>> for 15 minutes of infamy isn't
media manipulation, but attempting
>>>>>>>>>> to get
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> truth out that's manipulation to
you.   Riiigggghhhhttttt.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Joe Wilson is a liar and self
aggrandizing idiot who was part of
>>>>>>>>>> a rogue
>>>>>>>>> CIA
>>>>>>>>>> plot to perpetrate a bloodless
coup, he should be imprisoned
>>>>>>>>>> along with
>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>> traitorous wife and a few of her superiors.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Millions of people are writing
their senators demanding a
>>>>>>>>>> senatorial/criminal investigation
into Wilson, Plame, and parts
>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>> CIA.
>>>>>>>>>> They need to be hauled in, put
under oath, and scrutinized
>>>>>>>>>> against every
>>>>>>>>>> statement they have ever made in
and outside of the CIA, under
>>>>>>>>>> oath
>>>>>>>>>> statements of all they claimed to
speak to for the past 2 years
>>>>>>>>>> related to
>>>>>>>>>> their possible crimes.  I just
hope their memories are perfect,
>>>>>>>>>> and they
>>>>>>>>>> don't forget something and get indicted.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "John Cuccia"
 wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>
news:1bblm19necc3egimr5smkag2jokakbj0e4{at}4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> > It isn't irony, it is a
concerted effort on the part of the
>>>>>>>>>> > Bush
>>>>>>>>>> > administration to manipulate
and use the same media the
>>>>>>>>>> > excoriate as
>>>>>>>>>> > "liberal" on a daily basis.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > Some time back there was a
discussion in which I claimed (and
>>>>>>>>>> > still
>>>>>>>>>> > do) that today's Republican
Party controlled the political
>>>>>>>>>> > debate in
>>>>>>>>>> > this country.  This type of
media manipulation is exactly what
>>>>>>>>>> > I
>>>>>>>>>> > meant.   In this case the
Bush Administration used the media
>>>>>>>>>> > (in
>>>>>>>>>> > concert with perjury and
obstruction of justice) to maintain
>>>>>>>>>> > their
>>>>>>>>>> > electoral popularity until
after the Boy Wonder was re-elected.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > Since then the veil has been
lifted , which is why Bush has
>>>>>>>>>> > lost the
>>>>>>>>>> > support of moderates,
independents,and crossover Democrats, and
>>>>>>>>>> > is
>>>>>>>>>> > left with the 30-something
percent of the population that are
>>>>>>>>>> > yellow-dog-type Republicans.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > Bush's re-election was the
direct result of criminal actions
>>>>>>>>>> > perpetrated by his lieutenants.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:19:56
-0500, Robert Comer
>>>>>>>>>> >
 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > >The irony is deafening. 
>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >- Bob Comer
>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >Rich Gauszka wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> > >> So the MSM did rig
the elction?
>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
http://www.latimes.com/news/columnists/la-oe-scheer1nov01,1,3380519.c
olumn?ctrack=1&cset=true
>>>>>>>>>> > >> What Judy forgot:
Your right to know
>>>>>>>>>> > >> THE MOST intriguing
revelation of Special Prosecutor Patrick
>>>>>>>>>> > >> J.
>>>>>>>>>> Fitzgerald's
>>>>>>>>>> > >> news conference last
week was his assertion that he would
>>>>>>>>>> > >> have
>>>>>>>>>> presented his
>>>>>>>>>> > >> indictment of I.
Lewis "Scooter" Libby a year ago if not for
>>>>>>>>>> > >> the
>>>>>>>>>> > >> intransigence of
reporters who refused to testify before the
>>>>>>>>>> > >> grand
>>>>>>>>>> jury. He
>>>>>>>>>> > >> said that without
that delay, "we would have been here in
>>>>>>>>>> > >> October
>>>>>>>>> 2004
>>>>>>>>>> > >> instead of October 2005."
>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>> > >> Had that been the
case, John Kerry probably would be
>>>>>>>>>> > >> president of the
>>>>>>>>>> United
>>>>>>>>>> > >> States today.
>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>> > >> .....
>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>> > >> INSTEAD OF
confronting Libby for trying to mislead
>>>>>>>>>> > >> reporters, Miller
>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>> > >> nothing to expose
his efforts to smear a former ambassador
>>>>>>>>>> > >> for
>>>>>>>>> raising
>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>> > >> questions. At the
very least, she should have written a
>>>>>>>>>> > >> story stating
>>>>>>>>>> that a
>>>>>>>>>> > >> White House official
was planting information to disparage a
>>>>>>>>>> > >> critic
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>>> > >> war policy. Miller
couldn't do that because she had acceded
>>>>>>>>>> > >> to
>>>>>>>>> Libby's
>>>>>>>>>> > >> demand that his
White House connection be concealed in any
>>>>>>>>>> > >> articles
>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>> > >> wrote, by
identifying him as a "former [Capitol] Hill
>>>>>>>>>> > >> staffer."
>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>> > >> This case was never
about protecting government sources who
>>>>>>>>>> > >> risk
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> > >> careers by telling
the truth, but rather about punishing
>>>>>>>>>> > >> those like
>>>>>>>>>> Wilson
>>>>>>>>>> > >> who do. That Miller
cared far more about protecting someone
>>>>>>>>>> > >> who
>>>>>>>>> abused
>>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>> > >> power as the vice
president's chief of staff than about
>>>>>>>>>> > >> protecting
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>>> > >> of Wilson to speak
truth to power says volumes about her
>>>>>>>>>> > >> priorities.
>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>> > >> That the New York
Times again editorialized last week in
>>>>>>>>>> > >> defense of
>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>>> > >> knee-jerk support of
Miller, even after knowing she deceived
>>>>>>>>>> > >> her
>>>>>>>>>> editors, is
>>>>>>>>>> > >> a startling
indication that even some of our most respected
>>>>>>>>>> > >> media
>>>>>>>>> leade
>>>>>>>>>> rs
>>>>>>>>>> > >> still are missing the point.
>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>> > >> The 1st Amendment
protection is not a license for mischief
>>>>>>>>>> > >> on the
>>>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> > >> journalists eager to
do the government's bidding. To the
>>>>>>>>>> > >> contrary, it
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> > >> conceived by the
founders to prevent government from
>>>>>>>>>> > >> subverting the
>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>> > >> press in an effort
to misinform the public. Unfortunately,
>>>>>>>>>> > >> that is
>>>>>>>>>> precisely
>>>>>>>>>> > >> what occurred here.
>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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