From: "Robert Comer" 

> Yeah I really do think we should question wether it all arose out of the
> dreamtime or was it ...

Exactly, it's a valid line of questioning.  ( I suspect you were being
sarcastic, but I agree with the statement.)

--
Bob Comer


"Adam"  wrote in message
news:4374926b{at}w3.nls.net...
> Robert Comer wrote:
>>>I don't wish intelligent design added to school texts but I don't have a
>>>problem with debate on it among researchers.  Too bad they don't share
>>>that opinion. Here's the link to the print and audio
>>
>>
>> That's pretty much the way I feel too.
>>
> Yeah I really do think we should question wether it all arose out of the
> dreamtime or was it ...
>
> Here is a nice page of possible options:
>
> http://www.magictails.com/creationlinks.html
>
> Each of which I think needs to be discussed on it's own merits as who
> knows maybe the Egyptians were right:
>
> ".In the beginning there was only the swirling watery chaos, called Nu.
> Out of these chaotic waters rose Atum, the sun god of the city of
> Heliopolis. It is believed that he created himself, using his thoughts and
> will. In the watery chaos, Atum found no place on which to stand. In the
> place where he first appeared, he created a hill. This hill was said to be
> the spot on which the temple of Heliopolis was built. Other
> interpretations find that Atum was the hill. In this interpretation Atum
> may represent the fertile, life giving hills left behind by the receding
> waters of the Nile's annual flood. As early as the Fifth-Dynasty, we find
> Atum identified with the sun god Ra. By this time his emergence on the
> primeval hill can be interpreted as the coming of light into the darkness
> of Nu. As the god of the rising sun, his name is Khepri.
>
> . . . . .His next act was to create more gods. Because he was all alone in
> the world, without a mate, he made a union with his shadow. This unusual
> way of procreating offspring was not considered strange to the Egyptians.
> We find Atum regarded as a bisexual god and was sometimes called the
> 'Great He-She'. The Egyptians were thus able to present Atum as the one
> and only creative force in the universe.
>
> . . . . .According to some texts the birth of Atum's children took place
> on the primeval hill. In other texts, Atum stayed in the waters of Nu to
> create his son and daughter. He gave birth to his son by spitting him out.
> His daughter he vomited. Shu represented the air and Tefnut was a goddess
> of moisture. Shu and Tefnut continued the act of creation by establishing
> a social order. To this order Shu contributed the 'principles of Life'
> while Tefnut contributed the 'principles of order'.
>
> . . . . .After some time Shu and Tefnut became separated from their father
> and lost in the watery chaos of Nu. Atum, who had only one eye, which was
> removable. This was called the Udjat eye. Atum removed the eye and sent it
> in search of his children. In time they returned with the eye. At this
> reunion Atum wept tears joy, where these tears hit the ground, men grew.
> Now Atum was ready to create the world. So Shu and Tefnut became the
> parents of Geb, the earth and Nut, the sky. Geb and Nut gave birth to
> Osiris and Isis, Seth, Nephthys."
>
> Maybe the dreamtime:
>
> "In the beginning the earth was a bare plain. All was dark. There was no
> life, no death. The sun, the moon, and the stars slept beneath the earth.
> All the eternal ancestors slept there, too, until at last they woke
> themselves out of their own eternity and broke through to the surface.
>
> When the eternal ancestors arose, in the Dreamtime, they wandered the
> earth, sometimes in animal form -- as kangaroos, or emus, or lizards --
> sometimes in human shape, sometimes part animal and human, sometimes as
> part human and plant.
>
> Two such beings, self-created out of nothing, were the Ungambikula.
> Wandering the world, they found half-made human beings. They were made of
> animals and plants, but were shapeless bundles, lying higgledy-piggledy,
> near where water holes and salt lakes could be created. The people were
> all doubled over into balls, vague and unfinished, without limbs or
> features.
>
> With their great stone knives, the Ungambikula carved heads, bodies, legs,
> and arms out of the bundles. They made the faces, and the hands and feet.
> At last the human beings were finished.
>
> Thus every man and woman was transformed from nature and owes allegiance
> to the totem of the animal or the plant that made the bundle they were
> created from -- such as the plum tree, the grass seed, the large and small
> lizards, the parakeet, or the rat.
>
> This work done, the ancestors went back to sleep. Some of them returned to
> underground homes, others became rocks and trees. The trails the ancestors
> walked in the Dreamtime are holy trails. Everywhere the ancestors went,
> they left sacred traces of their presence -- a rock, a waterhole, a tree.
>
> For the Dreamtime does not merely lie in the distant past, the Dreamtime
> is the eternal Now. Between heartbeat and heartbeat, the Dreamtime can
> come again. "
>
> Maybe the Aztec:
>
> "The mother of the Aztec creation story was called Coatlique (the Lady of
> the Skirt of Snakes). She was created in the image of the unknown,
> decorated with skulls, snakes, and lacerated hands. There are no cracks in
> her body and she is a perfect monolith (a totality of intensity and
> self-containment, yet her features were square and decapitated).
>
> Coatlique was first impregnated by an obsidian knife and gave birth to
> Coyolxanuhqui, goddess of the moon, and to a group of male offspring, who
> became the stars. Then one day Coatlique found a ball of feathers, which
> she tucked into her bosom. When she looked for it later, it was gone, at
> which time she realized that she was again pregnant. Her children, the
> moon and stars did not believe her story. Ashamed of their mother, they
> resolved to kill her. A goddess could only give birth once, to the
> original litter of divinity and no more. During the time that they were
> plotting her demise, Coatlique gave birth to the fiery god of war,
> Huitzilopochtli. With the help of a fire serpent, he destroyed his
> brothers and sister, murdering them in a rage. He beheaded Coyolxauhqui
> and threw her body into a deep gorge in a mountain, where it lies
> dismembered forever. The natural cosmos of the Indians was born of
> catastrophe. The heavens literally crumbled to pieces. The earth mother
> fell and was fertilized, while her children were torn apart by fratricide
> and then scattered and disjointed throughout the universe. "
>
>
> Or is this not what these people are talking about?
>
>
> Adam

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