On 22/10/2020 08:55, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 07:42:40 +0200
> Deloptes  wrote:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>>> Because value can be created more easily than rare metals can be
>>> created and so the value of the rare metal has to be steadily increased
>>> to compensate, which is a pity if the stuff is actually useful, but
>>> more to the point cannot continue indefinitely.
>>
>> Exactly this is the problem of our economic system - it seems to be
>> assuming infinite growth based on finite ressources, which contradiction
>> is hidden in the nature of fake money.
>
>  However gold standard and similar attempt to turn the economy into
> a zero sum game which is equally false to fact.

No. you are confusing 'wealth' with 'money'
Money is a *proxy* for unrealised wealth.

The relationship is not and need not be fixed.


  We need the flexibility of
> floating money

Do we? Only for massive expansion. We borrowed money to build the world
we now live in. That is and was valid, but to borrow money in order to
not have to work? That is consumerism and is not very clever, long term.


> but somehow we need to tie it to actual value which is
> neither fixed nor infinitely extensible but rather somewhere in between.
>
Value. What is that?

In the end the only commodity we have that has value is human man hours.
And what skills are employed. It has been conventional to proxy that
with 'money' .

But the bankers have done something truly despicable, They were allowed
to *create* 'money' without actually doing any work or creating any
wrealth, for it.

This confidence trick may have allowed people to build a better world to
start with, but now its being used to bribe idiots  and transfer power
to a select group of people who control the purse strings of the world.
The result has been the impoverishment of the lower classes and the
concentration of ownership and control in the hands of people whose only
virtue is they knew the right people to get them a place in a large
financial organisation.

We invented democracy to limit the power of elites without having to
have a civil war and behead a king.

The Gold standard was a good way of limiting the wealth that such people
could create, not by adding wealth to the world, or taxing other peoples
wealth, but by *fiat*.

And Fiat money is a very dangerous thing and very open to abuse. And
collapses faster than a house of cards if confidence in its issuer falters.



>  There is no such thing as "real" money.
>

Well not any more, no. There used to be...


--
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

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