Hello BOb,

On Fri 2037-May-29 09:16, Bob Klahn (1:124/311) wrote to Richard Webb:

JF>>     Reports vary.  Former FBI agent Ali Soufan, told a Senate
JF>> Judiciary  subcommittee that the use of tougher interrogation
JF>> techniques was  "counterproductive".   However, former
CIA officer,
JF>> John Kiriakou,  said in 2007 that 35 seconds of waterboarding caused
JF>> Zubaydah to  reveal key intelligence that allowed the U.S. to
JF>> prevent several  terrorist attacks.

 RW> WOuld agree with that.  But, as I said elsewhere, the
 RW> questioning imho is quite legitimate.  SInce it was done in
 RW> the name of the American people we darned sure have a right
 RW> to ask whether or not it was truly effective, whether we
 RW> were able to stop what was coming in the planning stages,
 RW> and the real rpoof in the pudding, whether any trials etc.
 RW> are going to result that won't be compromised by the
 RW> "enhanced" techniques.

BK>  And it didn't do much good.

Obviously, especially when reading MR. SOufan's testimony.
I'm assuming.  ONe of the fellows you cited in previous msg
was from congressional testimony, the other from a
television program, not sure who was who at the moment .


BK>  These techniques, from an operational perspective, are
BK>  ineffective, slow and unreliable, and as a result harmful to  our
BK> efforts to defeat al Qaeda. (This is aside from the

BK>  ...
OF course they are.  Note sOufan's example of utilizing the
subject's nickname which his mother used to refer to him.
THe thing is, these folks are prepared for that, as sOufan
notes.  THey know that we're not going to drop the illusion
of humane treatment, you might get bounced off a wall a few
times and waterboarded, but these guys aren't going to do
surgery on you while you're awake or have other bits of fun
with you, and if you're a qaeda mid-echelon dude you're
going to know this going in.  Unlike BUsh et al these folks
actually have studied their "enemy" and have taken that old
adage to heart.


BK>  There is a whole lot more to this.

I"m sure there is.  IT's also obvious.  Look at how many
times the "good cop bad cop" method of interrogating a
subject gets results.  I worked for a man a number of years
ago whom I suspected wasn't doing things quite legal and
aboveboard.  IN fact, I figured he might be moving some hot
merchanise through his shop.  wHen the two gendarmes came to my door to ask
me questions cop #1 played bad cop, "we'll
probably put you under the jail somewhere sucker ... " etc.
I basically gave him the one finger salute and said I don't
know jack about anything at all, I work for the guy, I"m
just another wage drone installing sound systems intercoms
and television distribution stuff as well as some autosound
now and then or two-way radios in vehicles.  I'm basically
just another drone.  Gimme my rights, I want a lawyer, don't know nothing
about nothing, got nothing to say.

so here comes his buddy, we've arleady changed venue to the
federal courthouse downtown, as this is a federal and local
thing, and guy comes in to talk with me.  NOw the funny
thing is I ran the snack bar in the basement for a couple
months for the guy managed the place when he was out sick.
so here comes MR. FEd and he does the "hey how ya doin'
buddy" thing, "ain't seen you since I used to come in to get a
sandwich coffee and pack of WInstons ... "

RIght away, I'm willing to talk.  THIs dude's telling me we
can clear this right up, he talks to me a bit with one of
the cops who wasn't an a{at}{at}{at} about the whole thing and I give him what I
think I know but couldn't prove, get my hand
shook and a ride home.  Right away when I get home, I call
boss man on the phone and tell him I was looking for a job
when I found that one, see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya, and btw you might
wanna clean up your mess in the shop and get right with the good lord
upstairs cause the heat's comin' your way.
I think I worked for this fool a sum total of about three
months when I started sniffing the aroma, but with a wife
and kid you keep taking the paycheck and decide you'll
figure out your next move when forced to make it.

Regards,
           Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+