-> On 25 May 09  17:16:53, Richard Webb got back to Dan Ceppa 
-> Re: Using What Works

 RW> what they really got, and not some platitudes about "we
 RW> stopped another attack" because that's not a provable.  What did you
 
 DC> No one seems to understand the efficacy of polar bear charms
 DC> employed  in the Fiji Islands.  They are definitely working quite
 DC> well...   

 RW> MIssed the reference on that one, maybe I"m dense .
 
It's an old camping joke, along the lines of snipe hunting.  You scare 
a neophyte into believing a dangerous, but impossible to be there 
creature can be kept away by performinmg a silly ritual. 

The joke was once used in a Rocky & Bullwinkle show.  "But, Bullwinkle, 
there aren't any polar bears around here for a 1000 miles."   "Yeah, 
see how good it works!"  

 RW> better from the good ol' U. S. of A.  AT least, that's the
 RW> myth in the storybooks .  wE all know better I'd think.
 
 DC> The myth used to somewhat real.  It's been trampled on a lot in the 
 DC> last 8 years. Statements such as. "It's just a goddamned piece of 
 DC> paper!" sure didn't help any. 

 RW> THat's for sure.  BUt yet, here again consider the example I used of
 RW> the illegal bug.  ASk those folks who do that bugging and they'll tell
 RW> you they kept major amounts of that bad dope stuff off the streets of
 RW> American cities by taking out a major distributor.  SO the method to
 RW> get the goodies to do the deed was illegally obtained.  "Can't make an
 RW> omelet without breakin' a few eggs ya know ... "wink wink
 RW> nudge nudge.  Nobody at the courthouse knows it happened,
 RW> wink wink nudge nudge.  "I didn't see anything like that did you?"

It's a slippery slope, for sure.  Newer technology makes it even scarier 
as it's becomin feasible to record everything almost everywhere.  The 
joke in Get Smart about the need for a Cone of Silence is becoming a 
reality.  

 RW> Be real men, quit with the plattitudes about unprovable
 RW> future attacks and tell us how many qaedas you really took
 RW> out of action with the information you illegally obtained.

Based on former operatives, the intel they got from "enhanced
interrogation" 
was next to worthless.  In fact, it was worse than that in that many man 
hours were lost chasing down false leads.  

 RW> OToh if you ordered it MR. CHeney and you didn't get lots of provable
 RW> goodies for your trouble then you're an international criminal.  IN

We need to send him on an all-expenses paid visit to Spain. 

 RW> that case, they're called war crimes bud.  But, war crimes or not, I
 RW> think a lot of average middle AMerican folks would cheer you on
 RW> nonetheless if they think you really got something for your trouble,
 RW> and for dragging the name of the United STates through the mud. BUt,
 RW> it's all just a goddamned piece of paper, and we'll do whatever we
 RW> want. 

The Constitution needs to mean something again.  Many US citizens, 
when questioned on particular points of it, state that the rights 
provided by it aren't legal.  

 RW> happens all the time in war.  WIthout modern methods of
 RW> communication though we don't hear about it.  In bygone days these

That's why the loss of news papers is so critical.  TV news rarely 
provides anything more than a snippet of what is going on.  It's also 
why a free internet is so critical.  Coupled with that is the loss of 
investigative reporters.  People need to be asking the hard questions 
instead of parroting gvt or business hand outs.  

 RW> Abu Ghraib would have never come to the world's attention if not for
 RW> some soldier with a camera. 

It would not have been as graphic, that's for sure.  

 RW> the axis of ignorant.  tHey did so good that they've driven
 RW> the TAliban into Pakistan to take over that country.  sMooth move!!!

That's the problem of not knowing your enemy or even your friends. There 
was no solid plan as to the aftermath of the war.  In the case of 
Afghanistan, the main goal was put on hold to go after the straw man 
in Iraq. 

Now, there are major problems in 3 countries in the region.  

--- OMX/Blue Wave/DOS v2.30