Hello John,

On Sat 2037-May-23 16:47, JOHN FITZGERALD (1:123/140) wrote to EARL CROASMUN:

JF>     Reports vary.  Former FBI agent Ali Soufan, told a Senate
JF> Judiciary  subcommittee that the use of tougher interrogation
JF> techniques was  "counterproductive".   However, former CIA officer,
JF> John Kiriakou,  said in 2007 that 35 seconds of waterboarding caused
JF> Zubaydah to  reveal key intelligence that allowed the U.S. to
JF> prevent several  terrorist attacks.

WOuld agree with that.  But, as I said elsewhere, the
questioning imho is quite legitimate.  SInce it was done in
the name of the American people we darned sure have a right
to ask whether or not it was truly effective, whether we
were able to stop what was coming in the planning stages,
and the real rpoof in the pudding, whether any trials etc.
are going to result that won't be compromised by the
"enhanced" techniques.


AS you know I've been equating this to civilian criminal
procedures, etc.  LEt's look at an example.
THe law enforcement folks know that MR. X utilized the
services of MR. Y. and his associates to handle hte
logistics of getting illegal drugs from point a to b.  YOu
bust the mules, get nothing that leads you higher.

YOu know that Mr.'s X and Y will be meeting at Mr. X's yacht tied up at the
dock in the local anchorage.  YOu're able to
plant radio transmitting bugs aboard the yacht and monitor
them.

Only one little problem.  YOu can't get a warrant for your
illegal wiretap and there's not squat you can do with the
info you got off the bug directly, because if you try to
utilize the recordings or anything else then the question of the legality
of your eavesdropping comes into question, and
Messr. X and Y take the big walk to freedom from the
courtroom.  NO matter how you slice it, you *cannot* use
anything you got directly from that wiretap.

BUt, if you happen to find a way to just stumble across the
folks in the warehouse cutting the big packages into smaller packages, no
warrant necessary, in plain sight when your
team busts in then you're golden.  "Oh we got an anonymous
tip on the phone ... " works every time.

SO let's ask the folks who were there what they got.  LEt's
see concrete proof of the operations they derailed, let's
see who's going to trial.  THis the American people have a
right to see, and a right to ask that it be produced.  You
might actually be surprised if the proof is brought forth.
Most folks probably don't give a rat's rear end if you
waterboarded a few qaedas, as long as ew really got
something good for it.
IF you've got a BIn Ladden lieutenant in captivity I could
care less if you took tin snips to its fingers and toes.
Lock it away by itself, let it scream, fix it up, bring it
back to consciousness and do some more fingers and toes.
send the parts to his mom for her birthday, I don't really
care.  Just maximize the potential of the dirty deed and get something
concrete for your trouble .  GEt the location
of a nest of Qaeda snakes to kill if nothing else.

But, instead we've blown it so good they're taking over
Pakistan now, at least the section bordering their former
base of operations.  

Regards,
           Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+