HEllo ROss,

On Sun 2037-May-24 02:19, Ross Sauer (1:123/789) wrote to Richard Webb:

RS> "Richard Webb -> JOHN FITZGERALD"  wrote in
RS> news:28591$POL_INC{at}JamNNTPd:

 RW> IF you've got a BIn Ladden lieutenant in captivity I could
 RW> care less if you took tin snips to its fingers and toes.
 RW> Lock it away by itself, let it scream, fix it up, bring it
 RW> back to consciousness and do some more fingers and toes.
 RW> send the parts to his mom for her birthday, I don't really
 RW> care.  Just maximize the potential of the dirty deed and get something
 RW> concrete for your trouble .  GEt the location
 RW> of a nest of Qaeda snakes to kill if nothing else.

RS> Richard, the US is supposed to be better than that.
RS> Mutilating a terrorist, no matter how evil they are, is absolutely
RS> WRONG. 

Agreed, but if you're gonna bend on such a principle then
you'd darned well better get something for your trouble.
THat's a slippery slope, and the justification for it, well
there can be none.  SO, if you're gonna do it then you'd
better get something good.

IN the message you reply to I use somewhat parallel
examples, the cops and illegal techniques for gathering
evidence.  I want to hear from the folks who ordered this
what they really got, and not some platitudes about "we
stopped another attack" because that's not a provable.  What did you
get?  Even though you can't use what you got from
the waterboarding session as evidence against the guy you
waterboarded, show me whatcha got.
Laws are broken if not badly bent in investigations every
day.  THose breaking and bending do their own equivocating.
BUt, people the world over are told they should expect
better from the good ol' U. S. of A.  AT least, that's the
myth in the storybooks .  wE all know better I'd think.

RS> Remember the 1993 WTC truck bombers?
RS> And that nitwit blind religious leader of theirs?

YEp, we're still feeding and housing 'em, you're right.
Although not citizens they were considered residents.  Due
process, they got theirs.  Great!  So, how many folks will
get their due process thanks to the folks we used enhanced
interrogation on?  THat's the big question that deserves
some answers.

Iow if you want the American people to look the other way
you'd best show 'em what you got for your trouble, and the
besmirching of our name.  THat's the point I've been making
here that I think folks on both sides of the debate in this
echo have missed.  AT least, that's my take on it.  Show me
what you gained that you wouldn't have.  Even if that means
I have to wait until after the trials take place, I"m cool
with that.

tHe reason I don't consider "we stopped another attack"
valid is that many things could have done that.  TOo inept
to build the bomb, like the fools in yemen blew themselves
up in a townhouse a la the weathermen of a few decades ago.
BUt, if our guys went into a place, busted the qaedas
building the bomb then that's a provable.  Rmor and inuendo
ain't gonna cut it here.  bUt, if you can prove to the folks back home here
what you really gained I think you'll see
enough Americans say to hell with what the international
community thinks.  BUt, you'd better be able to show 'em.

Regards,
           Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+