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Hiya Rob ....

 -=> Quoting Rob Mccart to Peter Coggon <=-

 PC>  When I heard finally they were bailing out the Big 3
 >automobile manufacturers, I wondered if these prima donnas
 >the workers and their union are going to take a pay cut?

 RM> A pay cut wouldn't help the situation much, although it may
 RM> make the rest of us feel better. If they worked for free
 RM> the cost of a car would drop by 7%.
 
 PC>Doubt it, as they get their $ 70/hour and all perks, and

 RM> $36 an hour.. Most of the balance goes to keep all the perks
 RM> in place for all the retired workers. I'm not saying they are
 RM> not paid too much for the job but it's not as bad as it sounds.
 RM> Japanese car companies figure about $49 per hour since they
 RM> don't have the huge backlog of retired workers to support..

   I think we dealt with this in a reply to Bob.   I found sources
that supported his view.  Also wages were competitive and near
equal...what wasn't was the perks...which  did go over $ 70...

   What do you mean ...not a backlog of retired workers?

   In Japan they do.    Familys sort of pledge their loyality to
the company and participate, and in return, without money being
exchanged they are looked after, and educated, as well advised
what to do, as well have their money looked after, and investments
etc....pay for retirement, which in North America and elsewhere
is not liked.

   I see here, this so often.   When I started working ,I started
saving.   I only got what I absolutely needed, and watched in
envy my fellow union      buy
this and that on loans with interest and no sense.    We also
had until the Unions merged and they got stronger and more
ridiculous a pension plan...which by contract they ended in
1997 ....   Mine I invested....and still have... but I watched
others ...spend...spend..spend.

   I think they ..unions must act in a responsible way.   I think
a fair wage, in respect for training,etc is ok.   As for the perks
well instead of keeping up with the jones.... invest some of their
wages, and in the end.... like with the Japanese worker, we 
consumers would not as someone stated be paying    for
these union perks.
 
 PC>keep me buying the Japanese imports which didn't need
 >a bailout.

 RM> Toyota is billions in the red and hasn't asked for a bailout
 RM> yet but is probably hoping for it. They are all hurting greatly.
 
    I have no idea what their country is doing for them, only what
I see here, and at the dealers nearby.    They are making deals,
and the lots are getting new cars and this years models too...and
yes the famed RED tag sale is ongoing...

 RM> American car sales are down about 34% I think but import sales
 RM> are down 26% so it's not so much a car company problem so much
 RM> as a noone spending money or able to borrow money problem.
 RM> There are thousands of people with good jobs wanting to buy or
 RM> lease a car who can't get the financing to do so. That is the
 RM> biggest problem.
 
 PC>  What really happened is that the Big 3 were going to
 >declare bankrupcy and that meant the Union contracts
 >were out the window, which might help in re-structuring
 >but the donwside here would have been 1 million plus outta
 >a job, as well in Michigan...everyone  1 million plus
 >outta a job.

 RM> They said a while back that 1 in 7 jobs in Canada was directly
 RM> related to the auto sector or support thereof..

 RM> I don't think you can just say screw it and let them go under
 RM> because they will take millions of outside jobs with them
 RM> and the recovery time will go from 2 or 3 years to decades.
 RM> I also don't think the bailout is structured right, the major
 RM> bailout of the banks I mean. They are pocketing the money for
 RM> the most part to look good to their shareholders and the people
 RM> still can't get financing for normal purchases. The gov't should
 RM> have Directly loaned money through the banks screening processes
 RM> to the people who are spending it to shore up the economy and
 RM> that would help everyone including the car companies.

 RM> Administration is a nightmare though which is why they don't
 RM> want to get directly involved..

 RM> -!-
 RM> * SLMR Rob  * Bankers do it with interest. (Penalty for early
 RM> withdrwl) * PDQWK 2.52 #17



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