HAS>-> God is longsuffering towards his elect before their conversion awaiti
HAS>-> for the  time when he will regeneration them and they will savingly
HAS>-> repent and believe the gospel.
HAS>->
HAS>Nahhhh, the Word of God does not state this.  Quote chapter and verse.
HAS>You once accused me of humanistic replies.  What are you doing?  you
HAS>just answer without any proofs of scripture to back up what you are
HAS>saying.  Perhaps you don't have any.
HAS>However, it is noteworthy that you believe obedience to be an act of
HAS>works and therefore not valid to salvation.  However above, you state
HAS>the very obedience i was referring to, "when he will regeneration them
HAS>and they will savingly repent and believe the gospel"   However, you got
HAS>it all backwards for sure.  Regeneration comes with the obedience to the
HAS>Gospel, and repentance.  There is no other formula in scripture.  Again
HAS>you state things you cannot prove by scripture.  Just off the wall.
I gave a clear exegesis of the passage to show that Peter is not talking
about all men else Christ is not coming back to all men are saved.
HAS>Nahhh, i don't believe you even comprehend Arminist doctrine.  You seem
HAS>to be a false witness for sure.  However i bring to your attention a
HAS>scripture found in Matt 7:21.   Not all that say Lord Lord shall enter
HAS>the Kingdom, but he that does the will of my father in heaven......
HAS>Another is found in Rom 10:9-13, in which one must be obedient and call
HAS>upon the name of the Lord to be saved.
HAS>See Matt 19:28,  Regeneration is for them who follow Jesus, not
HAS>regeneration and then follow Jesus.
HAS>Again Titus 3:5  "Not by works of righteousness that we have done but
HAS>according to his mercy he saved us."  How did he save us?
HAS>Through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost which
HAS>he shed upon us abundantly thorugh Jesus Christ our sAviour"
HAS>Again regeneration did not come so we would accept Christ as savior but
HAS>regeneration is the mode of cleansing when we accept Christ as savior.
HAS>Anyway, i see what you are saying does not agree with scripture and you
HAS>are enjoined by God to not add to His words nor detract from them, lest
HAS>you be found a liar.
HAS>There is no point in either giving you a platform for diatribes against
HAS>other born again saints of God, simply because they believe every word
HAS>that proceeded out of the mouth of God, and do not play games with it.
HAS>I find those who are incapable of cleansing themselves from the
HAS>filthiness of the flesh and spirit, usually buy into a cheap gospel, in
HAS>which they can live in their liscentiousness, and still go to a church
HAS>where there is no conviction....... Tsk Tsk
A dead men can do nothing until life is given to him. Regeneration of
the dead spirit of man mucst precede the  acts of repentance and faith.
Faith is a gift of God, Phil 1:29, Eph 2:8-9 and a fruit of the Spirit
Gal 5:22 so how can one dead in sin exercise a spiritual gift?
We read in Romans 3:24 that we are justified FREELY. The word freely is
"dorean" and it means "without a cause" such as "they hated me without a
cause". Just as the Pharisees hated Jesus for nothing in Him so God
justified us from nothing in us including any act of obedience. we are
told that life and immortality are brought to light NOT INTO BEING
through the gospel. The gospel is not goat food but sheep food. It is to
the elect of God whom he regenerates by the direct immediate operation
of the Spirit. Then the sinner is prepared to hear the gospel and
believe.
Lest you ask for chapter and verse let me examine the text that clearly
shows that there are no means whatsoever in the initial regeneration of
the elect. The text in question is John 3 speaking of being born of the
Spirit.
Lets look at these verses and see if that in fact is what is being said.
Well whatever Jesus was talking about it was something Nicodemus, as the
teacher of Israel, should have known. Look at verse 10 "art thou THE
(the definite article is used in the greek)  master of Israel and knowest
not these things?"
Now whatever Jesus meant it had to be something that Nicodemus AS THE
MASTER IN ISRAEL should have known. He could not have been talking about
"the washing of water by the word" Eph. 5:26 as some say because I don't
think Nicodemus had read the book of Ephesians. What does that have to
do with it you ask? That would have to rule out everything except that
which was prophesised in the Old Testament in reference to the New
Covenant.
What was he referring to? Well it couldn't have been baptism for at
least 2 reasons taken right from the text.
First, the only knowledge Nicodemus would have had about baptism would
be through John the Baptist's baptism of repentance. But that would have
nothing to do with him being the master of Israel.
Secondly look at verse 8 "The wind blows where it willeth, and thou
hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh and
whither it goeth:  SO IS everyone who is born of the Spirit" or
literally in the greek "so is every single one having been and in a
state of being (its a perfect participle)  begotten of the Spirit".
Notice just as the winds origin is unknown and it's presence is unknown
except by the effects SO IS everyone having been born of the Spirit.
Well if the spiritual birth comes at baptism or at sprinkling then
WE WOULD KNOW WHEN AND WHERE IT ORIGINATED!
The only thing we know of this spiritual birth is the effects it
produces in a converted life. No baptism, no sinners prayer, no walking
and aisle or an altar call can produce this. It is the sovereign work of
the Holy Spirit!
This brings us to what Jesus was referring to. In Ezekeil 36 we read a
promise of the New Covenant. In verse 25 we read "Then I will sprinkle
clean water on you and ye shall be clean; from all your filthiness, and
from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I put
within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and
give you an heart of flesh."
Now in case you think the sprinkling is baptism let show 2 reasons why it
is not.
1) Sprinkling is an entirely different word in the New Testament than
baptism. If God wanted to say sprinkle he would have said "rhantize"
which is the word sprinkle. (We get our word "rain" from it.)
2) God is doing the sprinkling clearly showing the symbolism.
This is speaking of regeneration which the sinner is entirely passive.
That is why the word "must" in John 3:7 is an indicative not an
imperative. This regeneration is God's work on the dead spirit of a
sinner that brings him to life. The evidence (like the blowing of the
leaves is to the wind) is a life of repentance, faith and holiness.
Regeneration, like the wind, is only known by it's effects! This, I
believe, is the clear teaching of Jesus's words to Nicodemus. If anyone
disagrees then please show me where I am wrong. I will listen since I
desire to know truth, but please show me scripturally not humanistic or
deductive reasoning.
Keep in mind these 3 points when exegeting these verses in John 3.
>>> Continued to next message
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * As many as were ordained to eternal life believed
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
---------------