I took the time to cut your message into pieces so i can respond so your
interpretations can be readily seen.
The first is :
->
->           2 Peter   3
->
->            9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some
->           men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not
->           willing that any should perish, but that all should come to
->           repentance.
->
->
-> Let me ask you a few questions. ANY OF WHOM? What is the subject of
-> this chapter? What is the promise mentioned in the verse?
->
-> Well let's look at it. The whole chapter is about the 2nd coming of C
-> Men will mock Christians in the last days say "Where is the promise o
-> His coming..." verse 4
->
-> Then in verse 5-6 he describes the these ungodly men who in verse 7 h
-> says that the heavens and earth are kept in store for "the perdition
-> ungodly men."
->
-> Now notice the parallel in verse 9.
->
-> He says that God is not slack in His promise of the 2nd coming but is
-> now get this, "long suffering towards", who is He longsuffering
-> towards? The ungodly? No. To usward ('hemas a 1st person plural prono
-> or some manuscripts have the 2nd person plural pronoun ('humas'). But
-> either way notice how this ties in with the next phrase. He is
-> longsuffering towards us "not willing that any (any of whom???? it is
-> adjective describing the us) should perish....."
->
Your interpretation is flawed for sure.  Because there would be no need
of patience on God's part to usward who are saved because we have
nothing to do.  We couldn't save ourselves nor can we unsave our selves
according to your doctrine.  Even Calvin interprets  vs 9 as "willing to
receive all to repentance".  However the common translation is better
suited.  But Calvin noted who the "usward really is".
It is the creation.  God will keep His promises and the end shall come,
however to those of us who possess the Holy Spirit, we realize that His
coming for His saints is the second coming, and the coming to earth is
the second advent.  One is to catch away His bride and the other is to
bring divine judgement and to take control of the earth for the
Millenial Kingdom....
-> Now if grammical construction means anything then the only obvious
-> answer is that Christ will not come back until all that He purposed t
-> save will be saved. If that is not the case then He isn't coming back
-> until everybody gets saved. Remember that the context is why the Lord
-> taking so long returning.
Harvey responds:
Again another straw man Mick.  Everybody is not going to be saved. I
resent you attempting to make that statement as though it is mine.  Let
us not be deceptive but clear in what you are saying and i will be
precise and clear in what i am saying.  However, according to Jn 3:16,
Jesus is saving this world.  According to  Rev. 5:9,. "hast redeemed us
to God by thy blood out of every family, and tongue, and people and
nation".  And again: Rev. 7:9 "After this i beheld and lo, a great
multitude which no man could number of all nations and kindreds and
people and tongues stood before the throne and before the Lamb clothed
with white robes and palms in their hands;
Why would you want to limit the Grace of God or the effacy of the blood
of Jesus?  God is long suffering so that everyone has the chance to be
saved.  The usward is the folks of this creation.   Any other
interpretation is deeply flawed....
-> BTW it is taking scriptures like this and putting all and any to
-> mean everyone without exception that the universalists use to show
-> that everyone ultimately will be saved.
Welll i certainly don't believe in the brotherhood of man or that a good
God will not send anyone to Hell.  He doesn't, They go there by their
own choices..
But again, you cannot make a doctrine out of a scripture or two or
three. What ever you decide is a good interpretation of a scripture must
agree and not contradict even one scripture.  Otherwise you can make
the scriptures say and mean anything.
I find it amusing that in one breath you attack Armininiast doctrine,
and now change your attack to Universalists.  Why not stay on subject?
Also just thought i would throw out for your study, the book of
Revelation chapters 1-4........  Just keep in mind the 7 churches are
not institutions or structures but bodies of believers.....
Have a great day.
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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