Hi ROBBY,
****deleted****
 MJ> If you believe and serve the Christ of Arminianism, you must
 MJ> recognize that you do not serve the Christ of the Bible.  You
 MJ> have been deceived!  Study the Scriptures and learn of the
 MJ> True Christ.  Pray for grace to repent and trust Christ as
 MJ> your sovereign Savior.
First of all let me say that MJ is being a bit radical.  He is of the 
Fundamentalist 
persuasion and anyone left of his radical right is a liberal or unsaved.  
Sorry, Mick, 
if you're listening.  Just giving my perspective.  The fact is Arminianism 
and 
Calvinism are simply two options within the broader spectrum of 
Evangelicalism and 
Protestantism.  I do not believe that Arminians are lost because I used to be 
one:)
RD>Why should they repent under your system?
Even Calvinists are commanded to repent.  Calvinism also believes in a real 
free will 
and in human responsibility.  We have a real ability to choose different 
options in 
life despite the fact that God has decreed and predestined everything that 
happens. 
In fact, He never makes anyone do anything but so orders contingencies and 
secondary causes that brings about specific results.  Here is what the WCF 
doctrinal statment says:
CHAP. III. - Of God's Eternal Decree
1. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own 
will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: (Eph. 1:11, 
Rom. 
11:33, Heb. 6:17, Rom. 9:15,18) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author 
of 
sin, (James 1:13,17, 1 John 1:5) nor is violence offered to the will of the 
creatures; 
nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather 
established. (Acts 2:23, Matt. 17:12, Acts 4:27-28, John 19:11, Prov. 16:33)
2. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all 
supposed conditions, (Acts 15:18, 1 Sam. 23:11-12, Matt. 11:21,23) yet hath 
He 
not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would 
come 
to pass upon such conditions. (Rom. 9:11,13,16,18)
3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and 
angels (1 Tim. 5:21, Matt. 25:41) are predestinated unto everlasting life; 
and others 
foreordained to everlasting death. (Rom. 9:22-23, Eph. 1:5-6, Prov. 16:4)
4. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are 
particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and 
definite, 
that it cannot be either increased or diminished. (2 Tim. 2:19, John 13:18)
5. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the 
foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable 
purpose, 
and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen, in Christ, 
unto 
everlasting glory, (Eph. 1:4,9,11, Rom. 8:30, 2 Tim. 1:9, 1 Thess. 5:9) out 
of His 
mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or 
perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as 
conditions, or 
causes moving Him thereunto: (Rom. 9:11,13,16, Eph. 1:4,9) and all to the 
praise 
of His glorious grace. (Eph. 1:6,12)
6. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath He, by the eternal 
and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the mans thereunto. (1 
Pet. 1:2, 
Eph. 1:4-5, Eph. 2:10, 2 Thess. 2:13) Wherefore, they who are elected, being 
fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, (1 Thess. 5:9-10, 1 Tit. 2:14) are 
effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, 
are 
justified,adopted, sanctified, (Rom. 8:30, Eph. 1:5, 2 Thess. 2:13) and kept 
by His 
power, through faith, unto salvation. (1 Pet. 1:5) Neither are any other 
redeemed 
by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but 
the elect 
only. (John 17:9, Rom. 8:28, John 6:64-65, John 10:26, John 8:47, 1 John 
:19)
7. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable 
counsel of His own will, whereby He extendeth or witholdeth mercy, as He 
pleaseth, 
for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to 
ordain 
them to dishonour and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious 
justice. (Matt. 
11:25-26, Rom. 9:17-18,21-22, 2 Tim. 2:19-20, Jude 4, 1 Pet. 2:8)
8. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with 
special prudence and care, (Rom. 9:20, Rom. 11:33, Deut. 29:29) that men, 
attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience 
thereunto, 
may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their 
eternal 
election. (2 Pet. 1:10) So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, 
reverence, and 
admiration of God; (Eph. 1:6, Rom. 11:33) and of humility, diligence, and 
abundant 
consolation to all that sincerely obey the Gospel. (Rom. 11:5,6,20, 2 Pet. 
1:10, 
Rom. 8:33, Luke 10:20)
Westminster Assembly, The Westminster Confession of Faith, (Oak Harbor, WA: 
Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995, [Online] Available: Logos Library System.
RD>If they're elected they have
RD>to worry about, and if they're not elected, then repentance won't help.
That's wrong, Robby.  If you will read section one above it clearly states 
that God is 
not the author of sin and he does "no violence" to the free will of 
individuals.  In 
fact, those who are elect will repent because God draws them to Himself in 
such a 
way that they desire to come to Him by their own free will.  Others are left 
to their 
own selfish will and their own bondage to sin.
I've posted the chapter on repentance in the next message.  However, 
repentance 
is not an option, it is a necessary sign of election.
RD>fact, i beleiev that your tecahing is that they will not be able to rep
They are not enabled to repent (see John 6:44-45, 65).  However, they are 
justly 
condemned because all are guilty before God and are responsible for their own 
sins (See Romans 3:10-18, 23).
RD>This gets back to the biggest question about Calvinistic teaching.  If 
RD>unelect are unsavable and the elect are automatically saved, what's the
RD>of studying or tecahing or evangelising?
That is fatalism, not Calvinism.  Calvinism does not teach that people are 
"automatically" damned or saved against their will.  See section 1 of Chapter 
Three 
above.
Sincerely in Christ,
Charlie Ray, 
Chaplain
1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely.
Persevere in them, because if you do,
you will save both yourself and your hearers.  (NIV).
chaplain@isgroup.net
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 * WR  # 461 * Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Sola Gratia, Sola Fide.
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