saying:
Having confronted Dr. David, Ed Grinnell, International Man Of Mystery, 
exclaimed:
 
 EG> I'm sorry, David, but my knowledge of hockey and its NUANCES go back
 
     I seriously doubt that you're the active student of the game that I 
am from it's earliest inception (when it was a non-contact sport!) to 
today.  It's only a matter of time before I go for a coaching 
certificate.
 
 EG> quite a few years. My displeaure started with the Flyers in the early
 EG> '70s but it wasn't until recent years that I finally threw my hands up
 EG> and said "The Hell with it." 
 
     Odd considering the '70s was the time of the bench clearing brawls 
(which were eliminated in the early '80s) and the record setting PIMs 
that it took 20 years for you to be fed up with it.  
 
 EG> Hockey CAN be played without fighting or at least as much fighting as
 EG> there is now. Now, you're probably going to disagree but even though I
 EG> wasn't a fan of the team, I admired the way that the Canadiens could
 EG> get away with doing less of the crap that others did. Penalty leaders
 
     You're I'm going to disagree, surely you didn't think they kept 
John Ferguson for his playing ability?  In the late '70s they had the 
troika of Yvon Lambert, Mario Tremblay, and Doug Risebrough.  If they 
didn't have them, Lafleur and Dryden would've been clocked every other 
night and they would have won absolutely zero Stanley Cups.
 
 EG> in the NHL might typically range between 150-170 minutes, however,
 EG> Magnuson and Schultz took it to a new level and when Philly was able
 EG> to win back to back Cups, a lot of other teams began to imitate them
 
     The Flyers would not have won those cups had they also not had 
superb talent in the likes Bobby Clarke, Reggie Leach, and Bernie 
Parent.
     However, while I agree that the '70s represented the peak, I would 
argue that levels now are back to normal.  Eddie Shore of Boston had 165 
pims in 1928 with a 44 game schedule and Red Horner had 167 pims for 
Toronto in 1936 with a 48 games schedule.  The low for a leader was 
Billy Boucher of Montreal in 1923 with 52 pims on 24 game schedule.  
This was all before misconducts were included in a players totals.
     Hmmm, extrapolating your era of peace, it would seem to coincide 
the time of the 6 team league.  In 1938 the Montreal Maroons folded, in 
1942 the New York Americans folded.  Horner had 82 in 1937-38 (48 games)
representing the first time the total went below one hundred since they 
went to a 44 game schedule 1926-27.  Using your 150-170 as a base line, 
we get a low of 73 in 1946 (Jack Stewart, Detroit, 50 games) and only 3 
times did it go above 180 until expansion: Lou Fontinato, NYRangers, 
202, 1956-57, 70 games; Ted Lindsay, Chicago, 184, 1958-59, 70 games; 
and Howie Young, Detroit, 273, 1962-63, 70 games.  The last year below 
200 for a leader was 1967-68, the year of expansion (Barclay Plager, 
St. Louis, 153, 74 games).
     From 1968-69 to 1978-79 we have the leader go over 400 for the year 
on 2 occasions (Dave Schultz both times), between 300 and 400 on 3 
occasions, and below 300 6 times. Since the NHL-WHA merger the leader 
has been above 400 twice (Paul Baxter, Pittsburgh, 407, 1981-82, 80 
games; and Mike Peluso, Chicago, 408, 1991-92, 80 games) and below 300 
on three occasions (Jimmy Mann, Winnipeg, 287, 1979-80, 80 games; Randy 
Holt, Washington, 275, 1982-83, 80 games; and Enrico Ciccone, Tampa Bay, 
225, 1994-95, 48 games, yeah, I know doesn't count.)
     There you go, your argument isn't without merit from a dry 
statistical point of view.  Obviously expansion has helped dilute the 
talent resulting in higher penalty totals, and with the next round of 
expansion we will see it jump again.  However it also tells you, you 
can't eliminate it, and it also doesn't get into the nuances of the game 
itself, such as why certain actions occur.  Fighting doesn't just happen 
for the hell of it, it is always has the result of a provocation, such 
as high sticking, or the running of a star player.  However with 
fighting is clamped down, what happens is a tit-for-tat of high 
sticking, slashing and the game of running the goalie.  How is that an 
improvement?
 
 DGR> Very simple deterrent that worked very well, by putting the fear
 DGR> of God into the dirty players,
 EG> Old days? What world are you talking about? I can't remember when this
 EG> so-called policing EVER stopped the goons like Schultz (Schultz wasn't
 
     Clark Gillies of the New York Islanders demolished him a 1975 
fight.  He was really never the same since then.
 
 EG> the first goon, just the one known the most across the US). 
     Hmmm, hmmm. Lou Fontinato of the New York Rangers had his reign of 
terror halted by Gordie Howe in 1959.  There you go, two examples of the 
self-policing working.  This year we'll see what happens to Claude 
Lemieux after the pounding he took from Kirk Maltby...
                                   Sincerely Yours
                                   
                                   David G. Riess
                                   EchoHockeyFightDoctor
... Some of us are David, but most of us are Dave.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
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